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Here is what is happening, as far as I know. This information comes from a compilation of sources. First of all, a little over two weeks ago it was announced that Celebrate Tonight was being canceled after June 26th. There was a lot of speculation that since the announcement was so abrupt and the ending just one week before a major holiday weekend, that finally the construction walls were going to go up and demolitions were going to begin. There was that big PI meeting last week and the word leaking out of there was centered around an "ultra-lounge" coming. That brought speculation (not reported here) that BET Soundstage & Adventurers Club were coming down, to be replaced with an ultra-lounge.
Well it turns out that is not the case. Construction walls are not going up and demolitions are not about to begin, at least not in July and highly unlikely during the summer tourist season. Instead the Entertainment division has been given the task of experimenting on the Island. You recall my article a few weeks mentioning the hiring of former Mannequins tech Marina. Well she and her team apparently, from what I can tell, have the extremely difficult task of making PI come alive while the Imagineers come up with Plan B. You see, Plan A is dead and TDO admits seeing their errors. Plan A was the original announcement of new restaurants and shops replacing the clubs. I'm sure you recall the infamous Kevin Lansberry interview, available on YouTube.
So it's not that they necessarily have better ideas than Celebrate Tonight but they're sure going to try. Celebrate Tonight was a failure and they didn't want it out there for yet another holiday weekend. So for right now you're going to see various small thing occurring on the Island...and one big thing. The small things include the human statues every half hour plus small musical acts such as the 1-man Dominic and the 3-man PI Pop. There will be other smaller things as well, all designed to see what draws people and gets them to hang around. I personally think the statues are a winner; I don't mean they replace the clubs in any small way but they are pretty cool and will be popular.
The biggest thing coming is the Ultra-Lounge. It will be an outdoor "club" of some sort, located across Celebration Plaza. They are not going to move the booth or the monitors but will work around them. That metal furniture currently on the Plaza will be replaced with ultra-cool lounge furniture designed to withstand the elements. How music fits in or whether there will be a dance floor, I don't know. My sources say it's targeted to adults, not children, so there is hope we're going to get something cool with this. I was given the current working name for the ultra-lounge but I have sworn myself to secrecy on that.
No, this is not going to replace Mannequins or 8TRAX or Adventurers Club. But this is a start in the right direction of returning Pleasure Island to adults. I recommend that we watch these developments with an open mind and let's see where it takes us! As long as the original buildings remain, there is hope. And interestingly, a different source out there says that none of the club buildings are going to come down! But that's a story for another day.
35 comments:
Good work Bob, thanks for the update and things do appear to be moving in the right direction. I have to say I can't agree with you on the statues.....lol
Outdoor Ultra Lounge; OK, that'll be different.
Maybe just reopen all the clubs and put it back to the way it was... maybe????
I'm still waiting for the west end stage to be rebuilt yet again.
I still say forget Disney! they made a BIG mistake! and I still Hope that NO one will go and spend any money there!
so Disney closes our Clubs then reopens an we are going to just say Thank you Disney for closing down for 2 years (or more) and then reopen til they want to reclose and be Happy?
I say HECK NO!
I say stay away! send a message to Disney we are PISSED!
Disney did NOT care about us and still DO NOT!
what will the "clubs" look like a cheap version of what they looked like before!
You are so hostile to disney so why do you even read this web site.
Hmmmm... An OUTSIDE Ultra-Lounge in Orlando (where it's almost always hot and humid).
Not sure about that...
I guess if done right (maybe think Ember downtown), it could be good.
I like the idea of an outside ultra lounge - even at City Walk I tend to lean towards the outdoor stuff - like the outdoor Plaza Stage, the Margaritaville back porch, and the courtyard within Bob Marleys - I'm keeping an open mind and looking forward to experiencing it soon.
Ember (downtown on Central) is an awesome example of an outdoor ultra-lounge that is immensely popular. It attracts the after-work happy hour crowd and then keeps many of them by bringing on the DJ playing Top 40 & Oldies. A lot of it is covered and I think PI would have to figure out how to do that too. The sun & rain are just to brutal; there has to be shade IMO.
So instead of keeping most of the drinking and partying in the clubs, they now bring the drinking and partying outdoors.
Brilliant!
You all need to get over it! PI was costing the company so much $ to keep open. Its smarter money wise to keep it all closed then go in to the hole by paying to staff clubs that no one bought drinks in. PI will never return to what it once was. While a "lounge" or even a single bar/club may open on the island, it wont be the same. You have to understand what the guests are saying.....at first when PI was popular and EMH was still new, the guests were mad that they had to walk along the roadways to avoid the "adult enviroment" so...Disney removed gates and welcomed everyone....well then the families didnt like having their kids see the Adults drunk and the local hoodies started hanging at the island so the cops started being more visiable. And as more housing is built closer to the Disney property you will continue to see a growing problem of kids/teens just hanging out causing trouble. I wish things had gone differnt... I Miss the PI and the midnightshow.. but really people that was a different time...thats when the parks didnt stay open so late, EMH didnt keep resort guests in the parks till 3am.
Sorry folks....PI does have a long term plan....and while the economy has made it tough to bring in those 3rd party vendors, its not going to return to what it once was.
Unfortunately, the poster above is right. And I'll just add: Ultra Lounges are just another business model resulting directly from changing needs of businesses, clientele preferences and demographics. I've been around long enough to witness several music-entertainment movements and their close-in-pursuit business models: 70's disco, 80's newwave/punk, 90's grunge/folkrock and raves/trance, 00's house etc. The lounges attract (and more importantly for business models, cash in on) several types of customers; happy hour 20-60 yr old crowd (top 40), early evening 40-60(light rock/eclectic), nighttime 20-50 (pop/dance), late night 20-40(dance/house). They serve light fare food, keep the drinks strong, and offer convertindoor/outdoor heated/AC seating to keep customers coming back. Unfortunately, these "jack-of-all" business models are "master-of-none" and will dissappoint loyal followers after some time who fondly remember beautifully executed (but narrowly focused) uber clubs like "Studio 54", "Mannequins" etc. (fill in the blank). No worries. The only constant thing is change and the watered down ultra lounges will eventually leave enough patrons unsatisfied & wanting more that the dollar-chasing business model pendulum will swing back yet again to more focused clubs ..just as sure as rain on the horizon. The tragady here is PI with its diverse, focused, well executed clubs would have fit the bill perfectly, unfortunately its caught in a "down decade" of this club pendulum and Disney executives aren't will to weather it out because they must answer to their stock holders and financial analysts in real time. The good news in when WDW anounces a "brand new" exciting concept of a multi-nightclub entertainment complex for adults in 2020, most of the patrons by then will be too young to identify with, or care about the bitter taste their parents still have in their mouths from when "their" favorite nightclubs were shut down ..some place the folks used to call "Pleasure Island".
Kind of makes you wonder what might have been if they hadn't raided the AdvClub and sent most of its artifacts packing for Hong Kong. Reopening the Club might have been a quick and easy way to provide a companion experience to the new ultra lounge, breathing even more life into that section of the Island for the time being.
Not sure they would have looked at the Ad Club as a "companion experience" for an ultra lounge. Totally different clients.
People do realize there are HUGE demographic differences between downtown Orlando and Downtown Disney, right? Not a whole lot of professionals looking for an after-work happy hour at DTD.
Bob, I don't doubt you at all, but I do question your source's logic. I'm was no fan of Celebrate Tonight, but during busy times it could draw a crowd, and hold many of them for a half-hour. I don't see the living statues doing that. Dominic does alright, but again, his crowds were generally dwarfed by CT's. I don't see how this helps eat up the crowds during the holiday weekend.
Now if you told me 2 living statues (non-Equity?) cost less than 2 DJs, 2 stilt-walkers and 4 party-activators...that I would believe.
Absolutely 71 ! ..and lets hope WDW doesn't jump from the frying pan into fire with yet another disastrous decision. DTD and vacationing families are totally the wrong demographic to support an Ultra lounge type venue there. Likewise, local LBV workers are all hotel & food/beverage employees with the wrong hours for such a place. The only logical answer is WDW execs believe they can build such a great ultralounge experience that it'll attract both vacationing and local resident adults alike, just like PI did. That would take an over-the-top club experience with strong theming ..I simply don't see that happening in the current environment. I'm a born again optimist, but I fear WDW execs are loosing (have lost) direction and are now making decisions simply as knee-jerk reactions to successes they're observing elsewhere.
"Attention crew, will the Captian please return to the wheelhouse to steer this boat"
"You are so hostile to disney so why do you even read this web site."
response to the above:
because I want to see what stupid things Disney might do? and I want to try to get people NOT to go and spend money at Disney!!!!! that is why!!!!
and because Disney doesn't care about the locals!
and also about 7 years before they closed I was told be a cast member to watch what I do because Disney wants to kick out the locals. because we all had a pass and if you went every weekend Disney made very little off of us (you) but most of us got drinks so they made money off of us (you) !?
the other reason I HATE Disney is the fact: Disney would not try to advertise and then maybe it could have picked up and still be open!?
they advertise all of the rest of the Disney CO. so why didn't they advertise PI?????? so to me that is just a SLAP in the face and to say that after all the money I spent there and they do this and not try!
and I know (sure) that I am not the only one who feels this way!
just that most don't want to piss off the FAT RAT!
Yeah, I know they're not the same demo, but why would serious club-goers bypass other club experiences (Citywalk, downtown Orlando, etc.) just to go to an "outdoor ultra lounge" at an otherwise shuttered PI? This sounds like another band-aid, much like Celebrate Tonight. Throw something together outdoors and maybe they won't notice the closed clubs all around them?
If they were serious about adult entertainment at PI then reopening a couple of clubs (BET and AC in addition to the outdoor lounge perhaps) would make sense. I think what they're doing is another desperate cheap fix to cover over the heart of the issue: PI is an enormous dead-zone with no concrete plan nearly *two years* after the clubs were closed. Pretty outrageous when you think about it. Lansberry made a sweetheart deal with Schussler Creative and when that fell through, well, this is the result.
Toad, KingBob's article basically says that. Plan B is being worked on and until that comes out, they are trying a few temporary fixes.
Funny that some things are happening right as Harry takes over at Universal. Maybe Lord V casted some sort of spell on the P.I. higher ups. Thanks for all of the highlights and info KingBob!
Its amazing all these people saying how the PI model just won't work anymore. Hummm that must be why city walk is thriving. Spare me your lame explanation as to why city walk is different from PI cause it won't hold water. Disney made a huge miscalculation and lets hope they make it right.
Good discussion everyone. Keep it going. My responses:
Anon at 0823am: Good point. But again, as I understand it, this is just temporary.
Anon at 0929am: PI was costing so much $ to keep open? Yes, there was a cost but there was also revenue. Lots of it. Multiple sources including Disney has stated that PI was profitable at the end. I believe 71Jason has stated that only BET and Comedy Warehouse were in the red at the end. The rest of your description certainly captures the history quite well. And as everyone knows, the Island was fine when it was exclusive because it was expensive and gated.
Anon at 0938am: Your summary of the history of clubbing looks good too but I don't think we're in a down decade. Sure we're in a recession that has impacted everyone. But that's just a scapegoat for the incredible loss of revenue Disney has squandered on Pleasure Island. They may tell their bosses that it's the economy and the bosses will believe it. But they literally handed millions of dollars in revenue over to their major competitor. There's no down economy over at CityWalk. And let's not forget the absolute lack of promotion for PI after about 2002.
71Jason: Celebrate Tonight did draw crowds at times but revenue was non-existent. I think they're experiments now are to draw people who will stay. But yes, the new things so far are from outsourced vendors, but hired by Disney. The ultra-lounge? I haven't heard.
Anon at 1042am: Good points made.
Anon at 1142am: I understand your point but 30,000+ readers of this Blog tune-in because we WANT to give Disney our business. We CARE what is happening on "our" Island. We WANT them to come through for us. It was a safe, friendly and fun environment. We are counting on Disney to deliver again. That many people read this stuff because that many people care about PI. Really care.
Virtual Toad: I agree. A reopened comedy club, a reopened dance club. I just don't understand the resistance to that. 8TRAX used to allow kids and they didn't become delinquents because they saw a beer in someone's hands. This can be very family-friendly if done right.
Jeff from GNV: Thanks!
Anon at 0834pm: Church Street Station itself is a tenth of what it used to be. Bliss Ultra Lounge is part of what used to be the disco. There are several restaurants. But the Exchange is long gone. Lots of empty spots. There is hope that the new Magic arena which is on Church Street will liven things up. There are a lot of clubs further east on Church (Antigua/Chillers/RocBar/23/Mako's/Dragon Room) but they're not part of what was CSS.
Anon at 0848pm: Exactly!
i am Anon 10:42 AM
people I think want to see what happens no that they will come back
I read this and I would come out to see when and if they do anything? if they do I will come to see but will not spend any money! like i said i am sure that most feel this way just don't want to tick you off? I am sure that most will not like the plan a b c d or e that might be PI everyone had the FAV club some liked to club hop! but for many to go to a new pi club and sit and wait for them to play your type o Music will not work
Well said KingBob. People do care and we want our Island to be up and running again - in some form at least.
Thanks again for all of the great info!!!
PI had lots of revenue and profit. In fact, they had a HUGE surplus at the end of the fiscal year 2008 which is why there were all the "PLUSSES" the last week: Live Entertainment at MDP, extra actors at AC, a HUGE fireworks display, etc.
Disney just gave up on PI. On paper, it seemed like a better idea to go from a 9pm-2am operating day to something which was opened most of the day (more like West Side). Who even goes to the West Side?
I personally thought PI lost lots of it's charm after the "ungating". I enjoyed a 1:45am street party, and then a post-PI trip to Perkins. I bet they lost lots of money.
10:42, nothing people write ticks me off unless it's vulgar or hate speech, both of which get deleted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's what the Comment areas are for.
Jeff, GO GATORS! Which ties in nicely to this observation: When Spurrier left the Gators, he was a legend and no matter who replaced him, the guy would be hated because it would be impossible to live up to expectations. I think we have the same syndrome here. PI was a legend. No matter what replaces it, it will be hated.
Joe, I agree. There is no greater (legal) revenue than an alcohol-selling entertainment business!
You are right KingBob, it was hard to see anyone but Spurrier in the driving seat here. But, with time people have come around and I think the same thing will happen at P.I. I'm with you on the fact that Disney is for some reason terrified to let people back in those buildings again. It's all very strange.
So its been another day, lets hear the story on the clubs notcoming down.......lol
There is really not enough to do a story on. One of the Blog's roving reporters came across someone that said that the club conditions are not as bad as they are made out to be. This source said they're not coming down at all and will be reused.
Even though Mannequins was a beautifully executed venue, it was not marketed and targeted in a way to be profitable. The once weekly busy night hospitality crowd ($8-$14/hour) was not enough to sustain mannequins. This was a VERY high cost venue... the vast technical staff to operate the systems, the power required to push the massive lighting/sound systems/rotating floor/cryogenic effect systems; 20x50ish grid of par 56/64s? and 60+ aging intelligence fixtures, associated maintenance and lamp cost at $80+/lamp every 2000 hours, staff labor to maintain the fixtures, air conditioning to counter-act the crowd and about a half million BTUs generated by the lighting, ect. This caliper of a club can only be supported 3+ busy nights/weekly and a demographic comprised of young adults with a large disposable income... this is not characteristic of the hospitality crowd or orlando in general. The only way this venue would return is if disney considered the venue's impact on other business divisions and knowingly soaked up the loss for their benefit. (conventions for example)...
Just giving my input from a business standpoint.. Im a nightlife venue consultant with a heavy tech entertainment background... I do not and have not worked for disney or consulted on any projects for disney. :)
It all comes down to marketing and promotion. Disney gave up on PI and then blamed the economy for it. Instead of giving up why not have drink specials, give aways... other promo ideas to get the people into the clubs and promote the hell out PI. Maybe other clubs wont open but I still believe Mannequins and 8trax have a shot.
Anon at 0204pm: Well Mannequins is my favorite but realistically 8TRAX would have the best chance of success and at the same time could have the potential of being family-friendly. Ironically, they don't need a club like Motion because Disney already has that at ADH. Yet Motion is the one club with everything intact and could reopen to the public with little expense.
Anon at 0835pm last night, great description of their equipment. It was an incredible array. I agree that the labor expense led to losses on some nights but they didn't need to be open every night.That was their decision and even CityWalk clubs do it currently. But Mannequins made LOTS of money over the weekend and the club was profitible overall.
All you Anonymous posters, feel free to select a made-up name when you post so readers know when you're posting another comment. A real name is not needed. Instead of the Anonymous button below, select NAME/URL, enter any name and leave the URL field blank.
Hey Bob, any word on when "Club Celebrate" (please don't let that be the name) is supposed to be up and running?
There are all kinds of things they could have done to increase revenue at all the clubs! They could have had VIP access for a premium each night, they gave up on merchandise which they never should have done, could have brought in good acts to guest DJ. There were plenty of things they could have done and didn't because they wanted it to fail. While I am sure MDP was very expensive to operate, I have a hard time believing that in its heyday, it wasn't profitable the majority of the time. I think they should have outsourced the clubs and only had them open tues-sat.
Zulemara, I wouldn't have even bothered with Tuesday nights unless there was a big convention in town or if Wednesday was a holiday.
71Jason, I have no information yet on when the ultralounge might open. I'll let you all know when I hear something. You might actually hear something first.
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